1.9 Podcast Transcript
00:01
The language that I was using wasn't appropriate because it was us versus them. It was me versus you. This is mine. I get to choose what to do with it. I don't think it's appropriate for either of us to take the foot off the gas pedal. We are a team. Welcome to Velvet Ventures. Where we talk about life, marriage, and the pursuit of entrepreneurship. I'm Ben. And I'm Channing. And now a word from our sponsors.
00:29
00:59
Alright, so today we were gonna talk about a disagreement that we had, a misunderstanding. Let me put it that way, I guess. It was a language barrier. There were triggers being hit when I was talking and there were triggers being hit when you were talking. And so we kind of discussed it last night and came to a resolution, but I want to kind of walk through that again. And that way maybe we can...
01:27
One, just practice ourselves looking for those language faults and kind of adjusting the way that we speak to each other. And I just think it's so critical in a marriage because you came into this with baggage, I came into this with baggage. And so we both have these trigger points and learning how to communicate effectively while still putting our viewpoint forward. But we can be respectful of the other person's trigger points when we communicate. And so sometimes we fault on that.
01:57
anybody else, but I kind of just want to go back to that conversation and like tell me what your perspective was Or maybe give us synopsis of the scenario kind of set us up so I think overall what happens is with us is that you know we have We have very different ideas of Basically the things that when I say something to me is not
02:26
big deal or it's just these are matter of facts or I'm not meaning it to this extreme. But sometimes when we're in those moments, you hear things and the way that you perceive what I'm saying is an extreme. And it's, well, you were saying all or nothing and it's like, well, I'm not normally an all or nothing kind of guy. So no. And just walking through those and saying like, you know.
02:56
I felt...
03:00
I think both of us just didn't feel heard. Yeah. Well, I think it's difficult to listen when you feel defensive. Right. And so you could say the exact same thing to me, but if I'm in a defensive space, I'm going to take it completely different than if I wasn't in a defensive space. And when you feel defensive, I mean, at least for me, my tone of voice changes.
03:22
the way that I speak changes. And we've gotten really good at slowing down when we're in those spaces. So we make fewer mistakes, but we still make mistakes. And so what was happening is one of our companies, which on paper I own 100% and there was a lot of sacrifices that you made in the background for the home and just making sure the bills got paid as we were in startup mode. And you'd never felt fully appreciated.
03:51
I never felt like you fully supported and those kind of extreme emotions came out in this conversation even though we'd never really kind of discussed those emotions before. And so this company, we're in talks right now of being acquired or partnering and with the deposit of this acquisition, we were trying to decide what are we going to do?
04:19
with this money? How are we going to be wise with this money?" And you had made suggestions on, you know, we went from a king to a queen. Bed. Yeah. And it is, I mean, it's fine. But I move a lot. And you take off a lot of space on the bed as well, because you'd like to starfish in the middle of the night. And so we would just prefer a king. And so you had mentioned, well, let's get a king bed. I heard
04:47
let's go spend $3,000 on a brand new King bed, and then we're gonna have to buy the bed frame too. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like this is my company, and I get to decide what to do. And you heard, I never appreciated anything that you did for this company to be successful, and I was now trying to separate us as a team. Right, I think- Is that a good synopsis? Yeah, I mean, and again, because yes, from your point of view,
05:17
Cause in my point of view, I said, let's get a king bed. I'm on Facebook marketplace, like not looking to spend more than $500 on the frame and box spring. And then like, then we just need to buy the mattress. But you know, when we're in stores before you think of the 3000, cause that's what you want. And so like when we're in those kinds of stores, of course you gravitate towards I like this bed and it's like, well, that's $5,000. No wonder. And so.
05:46
that's where your mind goes. And in my mind, I'm like, I just want this and I'm going to get a bargain. I'm going to find a way to get it way below market value. So in my mind, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Um, and yes, you know, for me, it felt like we're a team, we're a team, we're a team. And then all of a sudden it's like, Oh, well now there may be a chunk of money coming.
06:13
this is mine to decide what to do with. I'm like, well, to me, it felt, I thought we were a team, you know? So as a team and a family, we're going to decide what we're going to do. And I don't think it has to be like we talked about last night, a win or lose. Like someone has to lose and someone gets to win, or we both have to lose a little bit, but I think it's explaining what is important to you, what is important to me, and then how we can understand.
06:43
why both of those things are good for the family and for the future because my inclination is and like we agreed upon like hey what if for right now we put a pin in it until we figure out exactly what's going to happen we can disagree that 50% will go to the future so investing iul's etc etc and then the other 50% is going to be up for discussion and we can decide to move that other 50% to investments also but that is
07:12
this is up for discussion. We agree upon the 50% going no matter what to investments. The other 50% could be to a buffer, to saving a little bit in savings, getting ahead on this, paying this down, whatever it may be, or upgrading our microphone. Those are all little discussions that we could have that's not like, well, it's here on Tuesday, we have to know what we're going to do with it on Wednesday because we need to spend it by Friday. That's kind of on
07:41
where we landed and that's just where my mind kind of was this whole time. It's like, there are things that we need or that would be nice to go ahead and take care of that we've been putting off. Um, let's get those things taken care of. And because of the, you know, the books you've been reading and the things that you've been doing lately, your mind immediately went to, we got to sink a hundred percent of it into investments, which is not a bad thing, but
08:10
It's also realizing that, Hey, this other person who I share my life with, like, they have something else, another need. And I feel like that's something that if the roles were reversed, it would be, you know, it could be the same decision. If I just decided that, well, this is what I want to do with it. So this is what I'm going to do with it. Like you would feel a level of betrayal, I think, with just icing me out. And now.
08:38
Now we're not a team, so we're not going to decide to do this together. Um, because I think right now, you know, we're in this stage of, you know, 10 years from now when, you know, everything is going to be different. Yeah. Uh, a $30,000 check. It's like that comes in from something like, I won't, you know, I mean, I think we both plan on being at a place where it's like, I don't care what you do with that, you know, and just like, if I were to
09:05
make a sale on something and get a huge commission on it or whatever. It's like, yeah, no, I mean, we have our investments are already kind of put together. Like, yeah, we want to keep sinking and hopefully we still operate as a team. But it's those aren't going to be life changing amounts anymore. Yeah. You know, because I think we also were we were discussing a lot more than the money. We were discussing the roles. Yeah.
09:32
And anytime you discuss roles, it can get sticky and tricky, especially because we don't really subscribe to the quote unquote traditional roles as husband and wife. You know? And that just, it doesn't work for us. And that's okay, but like anytime that we talk about switching those roles, we have to be even more vigilant about the respect that we show each other in language. Because we even discussed, you know...
10:01
what are our roles in the companies that we're currently operating? Because there was times that we work differently and that's totally fine. And like I don't expect you to put your nose down and work 12, 14 hour days. Like that's a choice that I make. It's not an expectation that I have of you. But there's times that I was getting, I was feeling overwhelmed and my overwhelm was coming more from...
10:27
I felt like you were supposed to be helping because I thought that's what we had agreed on although it wasn't ever an explicit conversation. It was just my understanding. And I felt like you were dropping the ball and I felt like I was being abandoned a little bit. And so when we came back together it was more of like, well, you've got this company that you understand better and you can run with and you can be independent. And we've got this other company that I know how to run better and I can run with it and be independent.
10:56
And so instead of requiring that you come over and help here, because I don't have the time to come help here, it's not really fair to ask you to do the other, but we can be advisors on these different companies. So I'm here to advise and assist with Benson's. But day-to-day operations or pricing structure or budgeting or how you work with the clients, that's not for me to decide.
11:23
I can advise you on what I think you should do or what I think would be best for the company, but at the end of the day, the call is yours to make and I have to be okay with that. And same thing with Dowry. You're here as an advisor and you still come to meetings and you can give me your thoughts and you can help me, but at the end of the day, the pricing and how I choose to work with customers is my final decision. And we both get to benefit from the income and the...
11:51
the brand and the exposure of both of these companies, because we do 50-50 own each of them. But I think it just for us makes it a lot simpler to have some autonomy, even though the ownership on paper is 50-50, to have the autonomy to be able to run, because we operate completely differently. And I think Benson's needs your fingerprint, not mine. And I think Dallery needs my fingerprint, not yours. And so...
12:18
respecting those lines and still being there as a team, but just in a different way, I think is going to help both companies be a lot more successful. And that's just never a discussion that we had before, or with any of the companies before we formed them. It's just something that we kind of just had to bicker through, honestly. And I mean, there was some bickering. Well, and to me, you know,
12:46
You know, we got wrapped up in the excitement of starting. And so they're, you know, like with most things you get excited. You're running with it. You're just, you're, you're running on creativity. And then once creativity, you know, I mean, they're both still creative jobs, but like once creativity is like, okay, well now the business side needs to catch up. And that's where we fundamentally have different ideas on how, you know, even just down to the talking to the clients, how that.
13:15
what that looks like and the commitments and different things of that nature. And so yeah, it's once the business side, because I think we both are really good at collaboration and creativity and like we get excited even like talking to clients about their product, what they're doing and how they can expand or do more things. And so, especially when we're talking about our own stuff.
13:45
then it gets even more exciting. And so it was like, we're just flat out running full speed. And then now it's not realizing we're on two different roads. Well, I think we had some ideas of that, but like we weren't at a point where that mattered as much. And then once it, you know, months later, when it's like, okay, now we have to start making, you know, financial decisions or it's grown to a certain point where. You know,
14:12
this needs to be hired out or this needs to be hired out. Well, then we have different ideas of what is hiring out look like? And why wouldn't work for that amount of money or, you know, well, that's way too much money for industry standards. You know, but because we're not in each other's spaces in that realm, or we just have different ideas. You know, it can be like, I would rather, you know, my go-to in theory is I would rather work for like five clients a year, but they all be larger.
14:41
that's not always sustainable because then if you lose one, you just lost a fifth of your company income and you gravitate more towards the scrappy... I like diversity. Yeah, helping different people of different pay structures and scales. And I don't mind doing a startup. Yeah, and I don't mind doing a $30 X, Y, and Z, and then for what we do, which again, it's completely different. But in my
15:11
answer the phone for $30, you know, like, and so but again, it's just because it's a very like mine is a more physical, tangible, I show up, we do blank. And so when you lift heavy things, and I float through big ideas, right. And so because they take different efforts, those businesses can't operate the same and both be successful, one's going to fail, one's going to succeed. Right. And so I think by us coming to the realization, that's how it is.
15:40
and allowing ourselves like we have in our marriage to be in our strengths and rely on each other's strengths, we're going to be a lot more successful in both companies because of it. Well, I think like you said, with our marriage, but also with the companies, to realize that it is the wisest decision to understand that you need a butt out. Because
16:08
There's nothing productive as coming from the back and forth. And I think that that's okay to have different ideas because again, it takes different people to do different things. And so I think very wise decision that we are in the process of honing is realizing that's like, no, I don't agree with you on this and you don't agree with me on
16:37
I think you should structure it like this. I think you need to have this system in and I'm, I don't want that. And you're saying, I don't want to do this. And so understanding and realizing that, you know what, this is not mine to control. I need to step away and I need to make myself available to help where I am. A strength that can be an asset, because if I just come in and say, well, I'm really good at estimating, so I'm going to estimate your stuff. And it's like, this is a completely different thing.
17:06
But I know that I am good at brainstorming and just at creating a, um, a rapport with people. And so bring me in coach and like, let's chit chat and bring me in on this meeting to where it's like, they don't necessarily know that I may not be the one who's going to be doing their tasks, but I'm a pretty good brand ambassador and just, you know,
17:35
can be a likable person to where they get comfortable, they enjoy, we joke, we have a good time, but then it can also be your, like we've discussed before, your interpreter or just also when we leave, we can start to have a discussion of how did you feel like that went? Because you could walk away if you were just by yourself in a meeting and then you're driving home or whatnot.
18:01
know in your mind you're thinking well that went really well or this went this da da da da da but because i was there i can say like man i just i got a really sketchy vibe or you could say i didn't feel like that went well and i'm like what are you talking about like that went great like did you not see the sparkle in their eye but you may have already been like processing how am i going to execute on what they're doing and i'm not thinking that i'm just thinking
18:26
you could do all this stuff and I don't know how you're going to do it, but you should totally do this. Like we can figure that out, but you should do this. And so I think both of us living in different moments when we're there and then being able to bounce that off of each other and then be me saying, okay, you're good. Okay, now you go and execute. Or now you go and you get other people lined up to do the tasks. And so, well, I mean, we even discussed like
18:55
what's appropriate for taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks, taking breaks
19:24
That's how I made it appear because it was very us versus them when we were at this discussion point. But it came back to like, no, no, we are a team. And so until the bills are auto-draft, we don't have to worry about a thing. We've got safety nets, we've got future going. Until we're at that point, I don't think it's appropriate for either of us to take the foot off the gas pedal.
19:55
it's not a 50-50 marriage. And so I can't get Dallery halfway to where we need and then go, I got my half, good luck. Like that wouldn't, that's not appropriate. But at the same time, because we do work differently, we need, I need to be able to take a bath in the middle of the day, or stay in bed and operate from my phone until 11 if I'm not feeling it that day. Like I need that space. Just like if the house is stressing you out and you need to clean in the middle of the day.
20:23
or you need to go for a walk or you need to take the day off because it's been too stressful, you need the space to be able to do that. And realizing that we've got to give each other grace in those moments, that's not taking the foot off the gas pedal, that's just putting cruise control on for a second, you know? And allowing each other to do that, because otherwise we're both gonna burn out and we're never gonna be able to actually hit the goals that we're trying to hit.
20:50
And so that was also one of those discussions that we were kind of talking about and it kind of circled back into the cell of the other company. Like it the language that I was using wasn't appropriate because it was us versus them. It was me versus you. This is mine. I get to choose what to do with it. And I think a lot of that was coming from defensiveness because I thought you were telling me what we were going to do with it rather than trying to have a discussion about what we were trying to do with it.
21:18
And that was just my triggers getting hit and then me not saying like, I feel like you're trying to control me because like that's one of my triggers. Or I feel like you're saying if I behave, I can X, Y, and Z, like that's one of my triggers. Like don't put a string on something, I'd rather just not have it. Like I'll cut the string entirely. And so instead of communicating to you like, hey, I'm feeling like you're icing me out of this. And like it can't be sold without my signature.
21:46
Like if I'm not on board with 100% of how this is going, it's just not, I'm not going to sell. And you know, you thought I was saying, well, this is 100% mine and I get to decide if it sells or not. And so you better just get in line or it's like, it's not a done deal. Like I'm just going to keep it. And so I think we were both coming from a very defensive space. And even now I don't, I don't know that they're
22:15
would have been better language to use than that.
22:21
because it was how we were feeling. Well, I think one of our issues that is coming more and more to light is, and I'm not, I think I can speak for you, but I'm not necessarily going to, but like for me, even just this discussion right now, what I take from that is, you know, we need to be more thoughtful in our deliverance of, or delivery of information.
22:50
or whatnot because if we were to take even, I mean, I can say two seconds, but if you even just taking 20 minutes and saying like, okay, so here's what I'm going to say, because here's the information I need to deliver. And I'm going to run through that conversation. And then I'm going to take a step back and I'm going to try to look at it from their perspective and like, do am I coming off a jerk or am I coming off as controlling or
23:20
You know what? I think that that's going to sound like I'm, I'm putting a contingency on the outcome. And so I think if we were to just take more time and step out of like, I just need to get what I need out of this or I want, and that's going to take a lot of work and practice because I mean, I think we are both like, again, we just see things very differently in that aspect of. We've had 30 years.
23:50
Speaking a particular way. Yeah. Well now we're having to learn how to speak differently so that we can be the most respectful and the most successful with each other and That's just gonna take practice. I mean, it's just like learning a new language You're not gonna learn a new language by saying three sentences, you know, it's just it's constant repetition and intentional practice right and So, you know the conversation that we had yesterday about the exact same thing
24:19
And that one though was me saying, this is what I want to do with it. And this is why, and here's the math, and here's the future. Like, this is what I'm trying to build. And I didn't explain that very well at all. I just made it sound like it's all mine, you know? And that was not ever even my mind, but that's what I said. And so being able to show you like...
24:49
You know, we start here and then, you know, this is a long game. So here's 15 steps in the future and 20 years from now, this is what I want from this. And you go, oh, okay. So you're not just planning on keeping it and then just doing whatever you want with it. Like it is still coming into the team. And so, and then you being able to say like, I agree with this plan, but I
25:16
don't ever want 100% to just immediately go there. Because my brain, if you said yes, that's exactly what my brain thinks. My brain thinks 100%. You know, and so when we were discussing, you were like, I think 50%, because we've got a few things floating, you know, that are, have potential to kind of change things. And so as each of those come in, you saying 50% of whatever comes in, 100%, no questions asked, can go towards this.
25:46
plan that you have. The other 50% is up for discussion because then my next question was, so 25% goes to what you need and 25% goes to what I need. What I said in that moment was I knew exactly where your brain was going and I said, this does not mean that by 50% because then you said, yeah, we can decide on this and this. I'm like, that does not mean 25% and 25%.
26:13
Because that's immediately where I knew that your mind went is you want to put. I like closure on things. Right. And I'm just like, no, it's the 50% is in a pot and that pot will live there until we decide what we're going to do with it. And it does not need to be an immediate thing. It can sit there for a week or two, you know, and, and we can start discussing those things now and I think that having a running list of like either things that need to be taken care of, or we know that, you know, we want to take a
26:41
know, what a spring break vacation, like, hey, let's go ahead and put a couple grand over here for that, like, planning those things. And I know that, you know, and that's why it was important that, you know, we kind of start figuring those things out because
27:01
We both kind of know how each other are in terms of you find something that you're passionate about and you just go full on. So if we were just if I was just to sit back and say, well, screw it, you just do whatever you want to do. Yeah, that's going to be great because, you know, you're going to pursue this avenue of like this is 20 years down the road and compounding interest and that's great.
27:27
but we also can't forget about the day to day. And I typically live more in the day to day, what the family needs and blah, blah, because you are living in the future. And I am, I'm looking forward to the future and I can see that, but that's not always like my- You're very much more pragmatic than I am. Yeah, well, I think I try to be, I don't know, real is not the word, but you know, like understanding that
27:57
there are all these things that could happen and that realizing like, oh, hey, we may need to spend some money on one of the cars or we may need to do this or whatever it may be. And it's like, they're less surprising when those things happen. If we talk about the likelihood of that thing happening, you know, and so, but I think that having that conversation of, um, you know,
28:26
or coming to an agreement on I know you and I know that a certain number needs to go towards this. Yeah, if you were just to say a hundred percent of everything will always be discussed, like that brings me absolutely no peace of mind. Even though it's not being said or portrayed, it makes me feel like there's strings that I don't know about. Right. Like, okay, well.
28:52
Do I need to behave in a particular way so that I get a say in what happens? And that's just childhood drama coming out. But like to have a specific number, even if it's not the entire hundred percent gives me peace of mind, lets me feel control and lets me know that you are on my team. There's not strings attached to this because the other 50% it's not like
29:19
Well, you got your 50, so the rest of the 50 is mine. It's no, this is all a team decision. We are agreeing that 50% is going towards your game plan for the team, because I can see your vision for the future, and I agree that this is what's best for the family. The other 50% though, I want some say.
29:45
30:18
Well, I think if you look at it from a farming standpoint, you're investing 50% in the seeds for next year, but you also have to maintain the farm. So you need to have money for equipment. You need to have money for improving your electrical systems, or you're getting a bigger fuel tank for the farm to have, or upgrading the tractor, or just fixing things that break during the harvest. And so like...
30:46
You know, there are things that got neglected during the growing phase that now need tending to because if you leave them long enough, they're going to break. And then it's like, well, crap, what do we do now? Or now it's just, it's just, it's unwarranted stress for no reason. Like if you just know that I got a high mileage car and da da da, you are going to have to replace things. A battery is going to stop working one day. Like it would not realize by the way.
31:13
how often things break on cars or how much maintenance they really need. We were just talking about this the other day. I've kept my car almost six years and that's the longest that I have ever kept a car. I've only kept cars like year and a half to maybe three years previously. Like never kept. Basically when it's time for new tires. Yeah. I've only replaced tires twice in my life. And once of them was on the current vehicle. Yes. Yep.
31:43
and once was because I had a blowout on a highway. And I mean, oil changes, I knew that was like frequent. But like, I didn't know batteries had to be replaced so often. Yeah. Or like windshield wipers. Didn't have a clue. Right. Those should actually be done every six months. Didn't have a clue. Yeah, I mean, but that's the thing is it's like understanding and knowing that stuff breaks. Yeah. And stuff just stops working. Like there's nothing wrong with it. Like things have a life cycle. It's like me.
32:13
I'm slowly breaking down. You don't need to throw me out though. I just need a little extra grease. I've never kept one this long. I just need a little extra grease on the knees and in the joints. So I think that, you know, and even if you look at, I mean, we'll stick with farming for a second, you know, typically you may have, you know, the younger generation of farmers may be thinking about, you know, the...
32:42
the future like, oh, well, if we can get 50 more acres, we can plant this stuff and we can compound our seed planting and sowing by X, Y, and Z. And the old timers lived through enough seasons that they know that you have to replace all your blades on your combine. You need to get all new filters. And a lot of people don't know, like farming, they may spend $15,000 a year on air filters for tractors and stuff. And so it's like, those are just
33:12
you know, someone who's not, hasn't lived through several growing or harvesting seasons, why would you think about that? You just think, Oh, well, it should be fine. And it's like, no, they wear out. And so anyway, that's kind of where that was coming from is like, yes, a certain amount needs to be earmarked for the future, but you can't neglect what's happening day to day and even just, you know, for my peace of mind, like I want.
33:40
this amount of a cushion. And because of that, I'm going to be a better person for it, you know? And just like if you're executing your plan, you're going to be a more enjoyable and a better person who's going to have more drive because your plan is getting executed on. So anytime things like this happen, it's going to contribute to your plan that it's great for the whole family. It's going to create generational wealth and it's going to create
34:09
opportunities.
34:13
But you can't put everything in that. And so, and then I'm going to be a better person because I know that if something happens tomorrow, like we can just go get it fixed. Right. You know, like if the air conditioner went out and something, like it's not gonna bankrupt. We're in this like delicate dance of, you want to know that we're comfortable and we're secure. And I almost at this point, fear, comfort and you know, sustainability.
34:43
Because we've done really well operating in passion. And I'm totally fine getting comfortable, but really not until I know we're also building the future. Like I don't wanna get so comfortable that we stop feeling like we need to push. And so if building the future keeps us in, you know, the passion place where we've gotta work for it, because that money's not really ours. That money is the trust, that money is for the future.
35:12
us and the future family. It is not ours to spend. And you need a little cushion to feel okay. And I'm fine with a little cushion, but like my worry was, you know, all these opportunities are going to land and then we've just got this lump sum sitting there doing nothing. And we get so comfortable that I push less or we make stupid financial decisions and we just go buy the thing because well, we have the money, right? And I just don't want that because my, my pole ball worked really hard.
35:42
to build a legacy and I'm ready to pick up where he left off and actually create some generational wealth because that didn't go how he planned it to. And so I'm ready to pick up that mantle and make sure that we can protect our great great grandkids even from our grandkids and our kids. Right. You know, like that's the kind of generational wealth that I want there. And so yeah, I think it was definitely not a comfortable conversation for us to go through
36:13
it was something that we had to process through together. And a lot of that is just because I've had to learn your money language and you've had to learn mine as well, because we definitely don't speak the same money language or have the same, we have the same money goals, but not when you're in the weeds. When you're in the weeds, we make different financial decisions. Yeah, well, and I think also for me, like,
36:42
And again, just from my perspective, like your money habits and your money thought process has changed three times since we've been together. So in all honesty, it's hard for me because I'm like, is this just a fad? Are you going to stick with it? Is this how you are? Or because when you talk about, you know, cause when we first got together, it's like, you know, if I had a hundred dollars, I can spend a hundred dollars.
37:07
If this comes in, like I just need to, like, it was like, I just want to stay in perpetuity broke because then I have no responsibility for the future is what I felt like it was. And to me that stressed me out because I like, I mean, since I've been on my own and been an adult, you know, I've never been, you know, had tons of money, but like I have never, for the most part, I've never had an instance where it's like.
37:36
Oh, I need to go get tires. Like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? It's like, that's fine. I can just go write a check. Yeah. You know, or I want to buy a gun today because, oh, I forgot to bring mine. I'll just stop at Walmart and pick up a rifle. And so like those kinds of things was just, that's normal for me. And then when we got together and then it's like, oh, well, now we got to invest money in businesses and now we're going to do this and then, you know, like I've had a change.
38:04
how I was raised and how I just trained myself as a single adult on how I handle my money and my finances to now this is our finances and our money and you need autonomy. You need to be able to have say freedom to do what not but how do you do that without saying like you can't blow through everything or you can't save everything and we just eat
38:33
Right. You know, and so, and I think we just have different things that, you know, things that are important to you are not important to me or vice versa. They just doesn't mean the same, doesn't have the same value to each other. And so it's like, how do you create the understanding and like, you know, I think a lot of that for us came from just education. I mean, I just wasn't educated on finances. Right. I had never been taught the skills of money management, like never at all.
39:02
The most that was ever taught to me was like, go to the Dave Ramsey program. I don't agree with the Dave Ramsey program. I think that he's got some great biblical references, but I don't agree with it. You had even mentioned that to me once and you were like, whoa, I did not expect that reaction from you. I'm like, I got very, very defensive because I think that life should be enjoyed. And so to beans and rice it like...
39:26
fundamentally don't agree with that theory. But at the same time, I just wasn't educated about what generational wealth meant. In my mind, you just worked really hard and you made a lot of money, and then eventually you get to enjoy that money. For the most part, that's completely idiotic to think that you can never generate wealth from working. Most people cannot do that. And so instead, it was...
39:54
learning how to make money work for me. You know, and what are the different, there's plenty of different vehicles that you can use for that, but what vehicle speaks to me and makes me feel safe and secure and is going to still let me know that we're going to get there at the end of the day. And just kind of changing my mindset from I can spend, you know, autonomously now I can spend 50% of these larger lumps that come in and I know that I have that autonomy.
40:24
that's not gonna go towards eating out or date nights or clothing or anything like that. Like, I've enjoyed the secondhand shopping, I'd rather just keep doing that. And really, I've not even... The less I leave the house, the less I spend. So, I've not been leaving the house a whole lot because I'm trying to make sure that the money that I'm spending is going towards the future because that is something that's very important to me. And I can't just keep talking about it and not taking action on it.
40:52
Because I feel like I've always been talking about that, but I've been a complete hypocrite on the actual execution of building generational wealth. And I'm just tired in all facets of my life, like I'm just trying to be less hypocritical. And so this is a major step even though it hasn't been made yet. Like for us to have that verbal conversation out loud and come to an agreement is a huge step for generations down the line, you know, because now we have a plan.
41:21
And we know what that plan is. And that plan might change and the vehicle might change, but like we're on the understanding that like, if we're gonna get where we wanna go, it doesn't, I could work 20 hours a day. We will never get there. It can't just be on me, it can't just be on you. It can't just be on our labor, our time. It has got to be the money working for us too. And so here's our plan on how we're gonna get there. Right.
41:50
Yeah, well, I think it's important to understand and to value each other in our roles because you know, if finances like we had when we first got married, you know, it was very much like, well, you pay the bills, you do all this stuff, like you just take care of the finances. And then you just tell me how much money I need to make. I'll go make it and I'll bring you that and I'll keep the rest. Right. And then I can just, you know, fangirl the rest of it or whatever.
42:20
You know, to me it's like, and I think that that's where some of that idea of like, no, you gave me control. You told me take control because I don't have it. And then we never had a discussion that changed and said, I'm ready. I'm ready to take some responsibility. So what does that look like? And to me, I'm over here like, listen, you can't, you, you told me you don't want to make decisions. And so I think that that's, I'm just like,
42:48
just realizing that I think that that's where some of my confusion- I think you felt defensive too because the way that I was presenting it made it sound like I didn't appreciate the way that you handled finances, which is not true. Sure. Like, you kind of took that as, well, you told me you didn't want this. Have I not been doing a good enough job for you? Like, why do you now all of a sudden want to do this? And so I don't know if it was just in the way that I presented it.
43:17
But like... Well, I think it's just that conversation where we didn't have another conversation where...
43:25
there was a, you know, like I said, I mean, I'm ready to take some responsibility. I'm ready to help lighten the load. How can I help? What, what area can I, can I assist in or can I help with the decision making? Because again, before it's like, I have no input on what we eat. How do you cook? What do you cook? What groceries do we keep in the house? You're like, I just want some, you know, whatever, whatever cereal.
43:51
Like that's all I would typically get from you. Yeah. I'm like, I need microwaved meals and these kinds of cereals and I'm good. Right. And then, so again, it's just one of those things that we have spent several years living that way where it's like you, you know, you, you didn't want to make any decisions for the most part on those things. It's like, take me out every once in a while, keep sodas, keep these snacks and this and everything else. I don't care. Like whatever don't care. And so then all of a sudden I'm like, Whoa, why are you
44:20
Why are you carrying all of a sudden what we're doing? Like we didn't have a discussion on, Hey, you're ready to, right. To take on authorized. And so I'm like, I think I was more confused. And also I'm just like, look, I get that you're reading books and I get that they had this and they said this, but that doesn't mean that that's what's going to work for like, we need to talk about this. But because again, when I say things like that, we need to talk about this. I think.
44:48
You heard that as I'm going to try to talk you out of that. I just heard no. Yeah. And so that's just where I'm like, I get frustrated because I'm like, that's not what I mean. I understand if that's where you go, but that's not what I'm meaning. And same thing. Like if you said, anyway, we just, we take things very differently and you are a much more literal it's all or nothing kind of thing. Like if I say like, Hey, let's talk about it. Oh, that's it. No, no, I'm done. You know,
45:18
And so, and then I'm just like, what's, what's going on? What, what's the, what's the big deal? And so, and then those typically start deeper discussions and, and whatnot. But, um, but yeah, I mean, I think.
45:35
having those difficult conversations has been life changing. And it's uncomfortable for a few days, you know, mainly leading up to it. And then we get to, at least for me, I get to a point where I'm like, screw it. Right. You're going to get pissed. Let's just have the conversation. And then typically it goes fairly well. Like there may be a couple of heated moments, but I feel that if we go into this with the understanding of like, we want a resolution. Yeah. It doesn't have to be set in stone tonight.
46:05
but we need to unpack the bag and then we need to think, okay, how are we going to put it back in here? Because it's a bag that we're going to lift and carry together, but like how do we distribute the weight in the bag? So one of us isn't carrying a heavier end or, you know, we can get everything back in it and we want to take everything with us when we're going. So how are we going to put it back in there? And so I think getting to that point, your top tip.
46:36
to let's say like a newly married couple, like we're only three and a half years into this marriage journey, but for somebody literally just starting to combine finances, or a couple looking to get married that do not speak the same money language. Like what would be your top tip? I think my top tip would be, have a discussion about
47:05
what you think money is. Because some people think that money is freedom and choice. Some people think that money is a burden. Some people think that money is evil. Some people think that money is finite and then some people think it's like water and it just flows. And so I think that understanding and you don't agree but like understand what the other person views, how they view money and what their intentions are.
47:35
with money, you know, and so because typically a spender marries a saver and you know, you have that kind of stuff and I think that understanding and just honestly keep having those discussions because we are people and we change and that's what happens with us. I mean, I am a person that like you take things to 100 percent. I am, you say I don't want to do this. I'm like, okay, you're never going to do it again. I will do it in perpetuity. But
48:01
six months from now you may not need that thing anymore and I'm going to continue to do it." You're like, I don't know why he's doing this. Then I don't feel appreciated because you're not eating the thing that I've been making or doing or using. I'm like, what? You don't love me anymore? You're not doing the thing that you told me you wanted. You're like, well, I wanted it a couple of times. I didn't mean I wanted it every single day or I don't want that dessert I'd say is my favorite but that doesn't mean I want it every day.
48:31
I think by just continuing to have those conversations, but understanding, I think, is the biggest deal is knowing either one who's going to take responsibility. You can both be in charge of money, but I think it works best when you have somebody who truly understands and thinks about it that is in control, air quotes, if you will. Air bonyes.
48:58
who's in control because you can't have two people driving the car. You know, y'all can both sit in the front seat and you can both know where you're going, but one person needs to be steering and driving, and the other person needs to be the DJ. And so that's kind of the way I view it personally, is that y'all both need to be involved in getting to the destination, but one person needs to be in charge of it, because then you run a lesser of a risk of like...
49:27
Well, did you pay the light bill? Well, I thought you said you were going to pay it. Well, now it's late. Or, did you say that you were going to do this or are you paying this? And so it's just too much. And you tend to drop the ball, in my experience, more if it's just whoever thinks of it does it. That's not a great way to operate anything. And so I think that kind of having some of those conversations around who's going to be in charge, how do you view money.
49:56
what are your goals, you know, and stuff, and just understanding that this is not a sentencing. This is today, we are, you know, this is our age, this is where our jobs are, maybe we're in school, maybe we're doing this, but like this is my five-year idea. And I like to use the word idea because, you know, six months from now, everything could be different. Sure.
50:25
I don't necessarily like to call it a goal per se. I think it's just my idea of five years looks like this. And that way it's a little more malleable in those earlier years. I mean, I have several things, but I think that would be my number one is learn to talk about it and get uncomfortable with it and do it from day one as early as possible. I wish that we would have.
50:53
I think we had money discussions, but I don't think we had money therapy with each other. I knew that you were more of a, for lack of better terms, reckless spender.
51:07
and I think I wish we would have had more conversations on that earlier on. Instead of, she's going to nag me until she gets what she wants, I'm reluctant in doing it, and then my go-to was, well, I'm just going to have this right here and as soon as it blows up or as soon as this happens, I'm going to use it as the next time she wants to do something that's what I view as unwise, I'm going to say
51:34
you can't do that because you did that last time and it didn't work or it was hard or it was whatever and so I think that being able to have those conversations early on would probably would have drastically helped in the resentment or in the you know the lack of respect I think honestly right yeah but
52:03
I think those are good. What about you? I mean, I think... I think that any married couple, whether it's money or not, needs to set up rules for fighting. We got a lot better at communicating when we sat down and we put rules around it. And I said what I will not accept, this, this, or this. If this happens, I'm out.
52:32
I'm not gonna discuss it any further. If this happens, then this conversation's over, we're gonna take a break. We were really at a breaking point in our marriage before we put rules around fighting. But once we did that, fighting has gotten so much easier. And now I don't even consider it fighting. It's disagreements, it's bickering maybe, but it's not, I mean, we would go days without speaking to each other.
53:02
And we don't do that anymore. Like I might avoid you a little more at some points, but like, I don't completely ignore your existence for five days. Right. And because we've put parameters around how we disagree or how we fight, any discussion is a lot easier, even though it's still uncomfortable. Right. And so I would say, put some rules up. I think the number one.
53:32
uh... tidbit, if you will, for me, that I would give to anybody, is understanding that this is forever. Mm-hmm. Because the moment that I kind of like, it really sunk in with me, that this is forever, it got a lot easier to piss you off.
53:57
Yeah. Because I'm not doing it just to piss you off. It's like, I understand that you don't want to hear this, but like, I need to say, it's kind of like with your kid, like you piss your kids off all the time. You know, any parent knows, you know, you, you, you probably take them off 50, 60 times a day. No, you can't have that snack. No, you can't hang out with your friend. No, you can't do this. I need you to do this. I need you to do that. And they just, but they're not going anywhere. And so it makes that a lot easier.
54:27
to kind of have those conversations and to do those things. And I think that once I realized that it's gonna be uncomfortable at times, and I mean, I don't know, maybe you have the option. It's like, one of us could leave and go to a hotel for a couple of days, but like, this is kind of it. And you can be mad and you'll eventually either get over it, but also it kind of helps with knowing that, okay, so I'm stuck with this person for the rest of my life.
54:56
I need to be thoughtful in my words and not just me like, well, you can't go anywhere. So I just get a run my mouth, but like, I need to be thoughtful and intentional because like, this is the person I love. This is, you know, my partner and yada, yada, yada. And so it's like, what, how does that change the communication between, between us? Because to me before it was, you know, you get pissed, you walk away, you leave.
55:25
Maybe you show back up later, maybe, you know, whatever, but knowing that's like, no, you, we can get mad at each other and we can go to opposite ends of the house. But like, you're not allowed to leave and go to the bar and I'm not allowed to leave and go to the bar or wherever it would go because that was, I think kind of the, our go-to's was just like, I'll just leave. Nope. Yeah. Or locking yourself in a particular room of the house. Yeah. And so.
55:55
once that was, once that sunk in, I think that was the biggest, the biggest change for me in my perspective of... Well, and we recorded that, that time. Like we set up rules and then I said, you know, so that both of us think harder before we speak. Right. I'm recording this entire argument. Yeah. And so that really forced us to not raise our voices, to not speak.
56:25
from a hateful place because we knew at the end of the day, like, this is recording both of us. Right. And like, I don't want to say anything that I'd be embarrassed about in five days, but once you have it like actually, there's just something different about it being recorded. Like a phone was face up and you saw the little, you know, what are those called? Airwave signs? The little boom. Just the audio recording. Yeah, the audio bars bouncing. Like it-
56:52
it hit different that this is permanent. This conversation is permanent. It's gonna be permanent here, but it's also permanent. If I say something hateful to you, that can't, I can't take it back. Right, well, I think what that does, because the way that you're saying it right now sounds like leverage, and I think what you're meaning is this is an accountability tool that you should not hold back because you're being recorded. But it's there as a mutual understanding that, hey,
57:21
the next day or later on or whenever it is if it's like, well, what you said here really hurt my, that's not what I said. We can play it back. We've never even listened to it. No. Because it was never about leverage. It was just about accountability. And it helped us both to be more accountable in that discussion without having to nag each other. Right. And we've never done it since. No. But...
57:51
I mean, at that point in our marriage, like that had to happen in that discussion. I don't think we could fight as well as we do now if we hadn't have gone to such extremes in that argument. Right. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's worth, like I said, giving a shot and also just knowing that it's okay to take a break. You know, because I think there's this misunderstanding of, you know, like in the Bible that talked about don't go to bed.
58:21
Don't let the sun go down while you're angry. Essentially, the way it was portrayed to me was, don't ever go to bed if you're still fighting. And while there's some truth to that, I think it's actually more of, don't let it go down on your anger. You can't resolve the other person's issues, and you can't resolve this argument.
58:43
then you need to at least let it go on your end. And it's hard, but at least at the end of the day, you know, if it's, you know, we gotta go to bed or whatever, and it's like we haven't come to a resolution, that's okay. We can still take a break and like, I forgive you. Well, we try not to fight when we're tired. Like, nothing good's gonna come. Well, yeah, that too. So, I agree with you. I don't think that there's a lot of, I don't want to say wisdom, but I
59:12
If you're mad like stay up and just talk it out like right that wouldn't work for us, right? Yeah, no, it's by I mean there's time less and less effective the more tired that we get It's like being hungry and trying to have a fight, right? Like that's just not a good idea, right? Yeah, and so I think being able to To go into that with an understanding of saying hey you know We need to be able to call a break. That doesn't mean that the conversation's over
59:41
And I mean, maybe that's where recording does come in, because then you can pick up where you left off if you forget, you know, hey, we weren't able to resume this for two days. And now we're coming back to the table, like let's replay the last five, 10 minutes so we can kind of OK. Yeah, OK. That's where we were at. You know. All right. Yeah. Thanks for joining us. I see you.
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